Posted by mvedepo on 02 Apr 2012 03:50 AM:

I am getting VERY frustrated with this phone. I bought the car dock ($20+) so I can use the GPS and I cannot find a charger (AC OR DC) that can keep up with the drain. Using navigation on a FULL charge and plugged in is good for about 90 mins then dead phone. I have NEVER seen anything like it. Even with the bluetooth off the battery just drains the entire time. I have spent as much on chargers as I did on the phone. I have tried 850 mah, 1 amp, 1.5 amp, and a 2.1 amp chargers. NONE have been able to keep up with continuous use of the phone, let alone GPS. I can't even just talk with the phone plugged in without draining the battery.

Heck with the phone sitting idle with the charging screen on it still drains.I cannot believe that this thing pulls more than 2.1 amps.For the record it doesn't matter if I am using the extended battery and the stock battery.

Is there a current limiter because there doesnt seem to be any difference using an 850 mah or a 2.1 A charger.

I Lined your post to this to our Tech guy, and here some questions. I think you've answered some of them already.

• When running on the Car charger, you started with a fully charged STANDARD battery, and it only lasted 90 minutes?
• How long on the Extended Battery?
• What Brand and model of Car charger are you using, and what is the rated Amperage?
• Are you using LG Cables... Not to pad accessory sales, but from what I understand they are a little heavier guage and should work better.
• What Navigation App are you using?
• Have you checked what background apps are running... I mean, anything special other than the standard Andriod App and Processes
• "I have tried 850 mah, 1 amp, 1.5 amp, and a 2.1 amp chargers." What Brand of chargers are they? 850mAh the 1 Amp, 1.5 and 2.1 Amp chargers, are they all the same brand?
• When you said that you can't even talk on the phone while charging, without it discharging too fast, Are you using it with the Car chargers, or the Wall charger or USB Charger when this happens?
• When your experiencing the rapid discharge, is the Battery getting HOT? Warm is normal, but I'm concerned about it getting hot enough to make uncomfortable to handle.

You sound very Tech Savy, so I'm sure you've tried the standard Android Battery saver steps. Adjust Screen brightness is a big one. The georgous 4.5 inch display does draw a lot of power. background Apps, Background Sync, and unfortunately, the GPS is also one of the options that draws the most power... But, obviously, you need the GPS on.

Let me know and I'll pass it on.

[from LG Product Pro]

I will have to check which chargers I am using besides the OEM supplied with the phone. I am on a trip and wont get back until Saturday.

I can tell you that the battery doesn't get warm at all let alone hot. But the PHONE sometimes gets so hot it's uncomfortable to hold it up to your ear. If I recal this is when the GPS is on.

Could you ask him if there is a charge current limiter built into the phone?



Thanks

[from mvedepo]

Posted by mvedepo on 04 Apr 2012 14:50 PM:

I will have to check which chargers I am using besides the OEM supplied with the phone. I am on a trip and wont get back until Saturday.

I can tell you that the battery doesn't get warm at all let alone hot. But the PHONE sometimes gets so hot it's uncomfortable to hold it up to your ear. If I recal this is when the GPS is on.

Could you ask him if there is a charge current limiter built into the phone?



Thanks

Phone getting Hot?? Sorry that's what I meant.

I'll ask about the Current Limiter.

[from LG Product Pro]

Phone does not get hot at all.

My 1st one did overheat and shutdown. But it was in the sun and GPS was on. Niether got hot during charge though.

[from mvedepo]

@lgproductpro.

new owner. i can confirm same behavior. using a MOTO OEM charger (the one with the plastic "M" illuminated by blue LED) in my car.

with the screen on, approximate 1% drain in 10min. with the screen off, approximate 1% increase in charge in 10min. this is while streaming pandora to a BT car stereo (Sony BT3900U). so, I have yet to see if there is a diff between 4G and 3G updating of the map, but clearly, with the display off, just listening to the audio turn-by-turn, it is possible to maintain the charge. however that defeats the benefits of a moving map display.

[from stef7]

Follow-up. Tried switching Network Mode from LTE/CDMA to CDMA only. In a 40min drive this morning, repeating my prior experiment, while on charger and screen visible, using Google NAV and streaming Pandora to the BT car stereo, lost 4% charge. Therefore the 1%/10min or approx .1%/min discharge rate is still approximately the same.

Now I could try doing the same experiment without streaming the music, and without leaving the display set to "Auto Brightness" level...

FWIW, the area of the phone that got the warmest was right under the 8MP HD label. The cover over the battery was not uniformally warm...

[from stef7]

Posted by mvedepo on 04 Apr 2012 14:50 PM:

I will have to check which chargers I am using besides the OEM supplied with the phone. I am on a trip and wont get back until Saturday.

I can tell you that the battery doesn't get warm at all let alone hot. But the PHONE sometimes gets so hot it's uncomfortable to hold it up to your ear. If I recal this is when the GPS is on.

Could you ask him if there is a charge current limiter built into the phone?



Thanks

Okay, I feel like a go between here, but I'll do what I can... Here is his question for you.

"What kind of current? Like voltage? If so, yes. It‰Ûas Li-Ion so it has to, Otherwise it would overheat."

[from LG Product Pro]

@LG_Product_Pro: Is that a question for me?

A phone has to have some form of voltage clamping and current limiting for charging the battery, otherwise battery damage would result. There is an optimum voltage and current that should be supplied via the battery charging ckt to the battery. So, yes, I suspect you can put a more uber charger on the other end of the micro USB cable used for charging and get the same result...

The chargers won't keep up with the consumption do to Google Navigation (map updates from the cell network, GPS lat/lon positioning, and display and audio output)...

Didn't you answer a question somewhere else that if the phone is instructed not to turn off the display when on the AC charger, the battery doesn't effectively charge? The same appears true in the car. :)

This is only my third android device, but it would be the first where the current consumption from the battery exceeds the current used to charge the battery. I think the screen is consuming too much juice. Just a guess at this point. But if I left the display off, and only used the audio turn-by-turn and was listening to Pandora, the phone actually charged!

It's the screen that appears to be the culprit! Can you ask engineering about that? Someone should be able to drive all day and all night without the phone shutting down due to low charge level.

[from stef7]

It is absolutley absurd that someone would release a phone that can't sustain itself even when plugged in. It makes features like Car Dock mode and naviagtion with moving maps essentially useless,

If current limiting is in the battery than they should allow the phone to bypass current from the power source so it would essentially remove draw from the battery during charging.

As for battery protection, it still seems WAY too limiting. I use litium technology daily. Our standard charging current for Lithium Ion (Lion) and Lithium Polymer (Lipo) is 1C. Meaning that if you have a 1800 mah pack we charge at 1.8A. If you have a 3000 mah pack we charge at 3.0A. With the standard 1830 mah battery it should handle a 1.8A charge with no issues. Now with the phone on the battery may not charge fast but it would still power the phone AND charge as I really doubt the phone takes more than 6.66 Watts (1.8A x 3.7 Volts).

Sounds like it's a battery issue more than a screen issue.

[from mvedepo]

I had the same issues, got the phone the day before Florida vacation. On the way to Florida I couldn't keep charge while playing with my new phone while hooked up to my 1A Palm charger. When I checked the power it showed the screen using over 50% of the power usage. I did battery a battery pull, and restart with the same results.

Once I got to Florida it seemed to have good battery performance, I would use it for a couple hours in the morning without a huge hit to the battery.

My new f150 has a power point and a cig lighter, I always use the cig lighter cause it's closer, but I used the power point for the ride home and it stayed full charge the whole way home with the same charger... Also the screen wasn't the largest power drain when I checked, it was Android, so something changed.

I have a week left to trade this phone in and so far I have had a couple things that make me want to take it back.

[from genEric]

@LG Product Pro: I have an additional experiment I performed. Since I run Beautiful Widgets, I planted the "Brightness" toggle widget on my home screen. I went into settings and changed the display from auto briteness to 11%. With the widget I can set the brightness now either to 100% or 11% with the toggle.

I then used the toggle widget to set the brightness to go to 11%.

Got in the car, put the phone on the charger, put BT on, started Pandora streaming, and Google Nav as I have before to keep the experiments the same... Unfortunately, even with the display at 11% brightness, I got basically the same results driving to work. About .1%/min net drain.

It seems that regardless of screen brightness, the loss in charge per unit time when on the charger is essentially the same. Remember though, I noted a net increase in charge if I was streaming music, listening to the turn-by-turn directions over BT to my car radio, but with the screen shut off...

Please if you can, forward these observations to the engineering staff.

[from stef7]

Posted by stef7 on 10 Apr 2012 17:43 PM:

@LG Product Pro: I have an additional experiment I performed. Since I run Beautiful Widgets, I planted the "Brightness" toggle widget on my home screen. I went into settings and changed the display from auto briteness to 11%. With the widget I can set the brightness now either to 100% or 11% with the toggle.

I then used the toggle widget to set the brightness to go to 11%.

Got in the car, put the phone on the charger, put BT on, started Pandora streaming, and Google Nav as I have before to keep the experiments the same... Unfortunately, even with the display at 11% brightness, I got basically the same results driving to work. About .1%/min net drain.

It seems that regardless of screen brightness, the loss in charge per unit time when on the charger is essentially the same. Remember though, I noted a net increase in charge if I was streaming music, listening to the turn-by-turn directions over BT to my car radio, but with the screen shut off...

Please if you can, forward these observations to the engineering staff.

I will pass this info on.... Just out of curiosity, if you open settings> Application Settings> Manage Apps> finally, Battery Use. This should give you an idea of how your battery is being used.

[from LG Product Pro]

I'm having the same problem. Using a 2 Amp charger that came with my HP Touchpad. When plugged in my Spectrum actually loses power while the screen is on and I'm using it.

Checking the power draw by using Battery Monitor Widget, with the screen off the phone charges at 450 mA (at *exactly* that number, which implies the phone is limiting current), and with the screen on it drains at around -40mA to -50mA. There seems to be a software bug that causes it to draw less power while the screen is on. Of course it might have been a "feature" to reduce phone temperature.

Coming from a Droid Charge, 450 mA isn't terrible, although the Charge could charge at higher rates. I know my mom's iPhone can charge up to 700 or 800 mA. But even 450 mA should be enough to charge the phone while it's in use.

450mA is close to 1/2 amp. That is a lot!
I don't know if some cap on charging rate is software modifiable, but it does seem we have a problem with charging when the display is on... even if all it is doing is sitting there plugged into the wall adapter... It should charge.

What say you LG Product Pro? Has this gotten the attention of Engineering? Yes, we'd have to be able to run Google Nav for hours and hours without the phone draining completely. Same is true if you were watching a video through Netflix. Phone has to handle those scenarios.

Interesting... This seems to be something we should look at. I've already passed the other posts in this thread on, I send your comments as well.

Thanks for sending on the comments. I meant, with a charging source supplied to the phone, either using the wall adapter or car charger... if the screen is on, it should still charge. :)

@LG Product Pro: is it possible, this is the situation we face?

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showt...

Can you ask engineering if there is a cable / charger or dock I can try?

This is very interesting.... It's something worth talking to my techie people about. If anyone wants to try this I would caution them to be careful so as not to damage your phone or charger. But if this works, it sounds like a cool solution... Just mark the cables so you don't try to use it for data.

On another forum that I frequent, a coder indicated he changed a ROM image to accept a higher charging rate...

"the way LG has the code written... it is supposed to run checks and set the max according to wire/charger capabilities. The problem is if all checks come back null it falls to a 450mA charge rate which is not enough"

For people that assert a higher access authority, there are programs that evidently manipulate the allowable charging current.

I think the first step would be to get a confirmation from the techies if the device will respond to a cable with the data-pins shorted... and if so, what the new current limiter value would be.

LG Product Pro. I attempted to contact the Accessories group after chatting with someone in Customer Support. Please contact me off list via email if possible.

I attempted to create a rapid charging cable for the car by shorting the green and white wires (D+ and D-) per many specifications I had read on the Internet. The charger was rated at 950mA.

I think the Spectrum is recognizing that it is being told it can go to a rapid charge mode (it's indicating AC charger because of the shorted wires), but it is not moving off the 450mA limited rate.

Engineering?

@LG Product Pro: I received a response to a posting in a forum on another site about this, and the respondent indicated at root cause was the resistance of the charging cable. Said the resistance is typ. 3-5ohms per 6ft cable, and at 700mA (ballpark figure), that would be a V=I*R = 2.1V drop in the cable alone, which would make it very difficult for the device to charge.

I might try genning up a cable with larger gauge wire (and thus lower resistance). I need to know though, when the phone senses D- and D+ shorted, what current draw is the phone set to for charging?

This is an interesting situation: it could mean that finding a charging solution that supports the phone in a mobile context (with the screen on) would be very very problematic.

Yeah, this is way over my head, I'll have to see if i can get some help... However I'm a little doubtful I'll be able to get a timely answer since they keep the hardware guys pretty deeply buried.... I would be a little nervous about moding a cable, I'd hate to see the phone get damaged... I'll see if I can get some traction on a more Permanent solution.

I think I've tried a few chargers and cables, and am not getting the desired result. I think the phone is still limiting the charging current, even if the cable by virtue of the shorted D- and D+ leads is saying, more current is available.

Might a mod for this be in the next release/patch?

I'll also be happy to beta-test something. :)

Bump.

Any update from Engineering on this dilema? The phone would be just about perfect if it charged while on a charger in the car when using the screen.

I don't mind the inconvenience of having to manually connect the phone to my Sony BT car stereo, but the phone depleting charge while on the charger but in use just isn't workable long-term, and I suspect may affect other models...

Seems like a small change to a kernel parameter or two and some Beta testing is what is needed.

Tried my new Spectrum under 2.3.6, and the deletion of the battery while on a charger capable of outputting more than 1 amp is still occurring while screen is on. This has to be changed at the kernel level occurring to others.

I am experiencing the same problem, phone will not charge in the car while using Google Navigation. I've tried multiple brands of car chargers. I never have this problem with my htc thunderbolt or droid x.